We told you a few weeks ago how excited we are about Cassie Workman is Witchy AF. Now, the whole internet is ablaze in anxious anticipation as premiere day has inched closer. Finally, the day has arrived, and we are overjoyed to announce that not only does the first episode begin streaming on YouTube TONIGHT at 8PM ET, but we got to interview Cassie herself! *insert Gay squeal of excitement here* We have also seen two episodes, and we’re here to say that the show has surpassed our wildest expectations.
Cassie Workman is Witchy AF is an eight-part, weekly, adult comedic documentary series that explores the history and philosophy of occultism and magic. Using puppetry created by Direct Message and practical SFX makeup from Monster in My Closet (Smile 2, Hocus Pocus), the show is set in a fictional occult bookstore owned by the show’s creator and host, Cassie Workman, who leads us through a world of ritual magic, identity, demons, tarot, love, death, and possible salvation. It covers such topics as Aleister Crowley, John Dee, the secret history of Hollywood, and Santa Muerte.
Something we didn’t mention in our initial excitement about the show: Lilly Wachowski is a producer, and it’s the first production to come out of Anarchists United. Launched by filmmaker Lilly Wachowski, Anarchists United Studios is a film and television production company focused on elevated sci-fi, thriller, action, and horror projects that will excite genre fans and general audiences around the world. Wholly owned by Anarchists United Foundation, both the studio and foundation are dedicated to uplifting Artistry, Diversity, and Equity in Film and Television.
We sat down with Cassie to talk about the show, and below is our edited-for-clarity (and to remove any embarrassing fangirling) interview.
Dirge Magazine: Hi Cassie! Hail Satan!
Cassie Workman: Hail Satan!
DM: What does it mean for you to be the first show/project to come out of Anarchists United?
CW: It’s exciting. I’m very proud. Lilly is a good friend of mine, and she has been very generous and so helpful. It’s just such a joy to work with her. It’s incredible; I still have to pinch myself every now and then. The production team, ETCH, who made this show—Will and Phil at ETCH are incredible, and now I consider myself good friends with them. They were just wonderful throughout the whole process. Everybody who worked on the show was so great; it was a real dream to make. It was super hard because we had to film so much in such a short time, and the schedules were just brutal, but it was a joy because, apart from doing the thing I really wanna do, everyone there was just super cool.
DM: How short of a time span was it?
CW: We did eight episodes in two weeks. But we all went into it knowing that was going to be, so we all had a run-up where we were like, “Prepare yourself, this is going to be a marathon,” and it certainly was, but I really think it was some of the best times of my life. We shot it in my house, currently, and also at Wolfe & Kron Books, the bookstore beneath my house. And Georgie’s bar, of course, which I think is the oldest gay bar in Jersey.
DM: To me, the show is kind of an amalgamation of The Craft if it was actually feminist and accurate, with a little bit of Pee-wee’s Playhouse and Mister Rogers thrown in.
CW: Yes. Yeah!
DM: What were your inspirations or thoughts behind the show’s structure?
CW: I just wanted to keep people interested. So my challenge was to keep mixing it up and thinking to myself, “Here’s this information that I really want to tell people. What’s the most interesting way that I can tell it that I haven’t done in some other part of the show?”
When I was writing the show, and I was sending it off to my manager, we were trying to think of ways we could do the historical reenactments. We could have live-action actors, we could have cartoons, or whatever. I think it was Sarah at Anarchists who said, “My friend at Direct Message makes these marionettes,” and I was like, “Sold.” They made these incredible marionettes for all of the historical re-creations. They were just so amazing, and I learned so much about marionettes.
It was my manager who came to me and said, “Do you think maybe we could have a puppet sidekick?” I went and drew this character of King Grimsquawk, who is a medieval Bavarian demon who I invented. He is a crow with baby arms, who can just sit on the counter and chat. I got my good friend Ben Russell to fly over from Australia to play King Grimsquawk, and it was just so much fun.
DM: Thank you for not being insulted when I said The Craft meets Pee-wee meets Mister Rogers.
CW: No, I think it’s accurate.
DM: Very early into episode one, you say, “This is not an age of nuance.” First of all: Hard agree. Second, what are your thoughts and feelings about educating people even in this fun, lighthearted way when nuance is basically dead?
CW: Look, it’s not going to be for everyone. I don’t write stuff for the lowest common denominator. I write stuff for people who are going to appreciate it, and I don’t compromise that. I never have in my career, which is probably why I’m broke. But my feeling is, I will never talk down to my audience. I always respect my audience. I am interested in giving a nuanced perspective, and I think people who like me are mature enough and smart enough to get that. But it is not an age of nuance, and the brutes have taken over, so I think it’s good to give the people who are not brutes something for them. They deserve stuff too.
DM: You are, by your own admission, a transgender immigrant talking about black magic on the internet; therefore, some pushback is expected, but what does it mean to you to be so openly against the despots and against the fascists when you already have this target on your back?
CW: Definitely part of it is, well, they’re going to hate me no matter what I do, so I might as well just do what I want, right? I think there’s some logic to that. Also, I feel like in some ways I’m limited in what I can do because the people who need to hear the message that I want to say are going to disregard it simply because I’m a transgender woman. They won’t listen to anything that I say. I think that it’s important to be out in public and saying things like a human being.
Trans people are not a monolith, obviously, but we have a pretty unique experience of walking through the world, and there’s a lot to be learned from us if people are willing to listen. We’re like people in that way: We have a lot of different perspectives that are all very valuable. To have the opportunity to make something like this, and get to say stuff from my own experience that I think is important, is incredible. I’m aware that not many people get to do that, so I want to do a good job of it, and I hope I did. But yeah, it’s a rough time to be an anti-fascist.
DM: If/when there is a second season, is there anything you didn’t talk about this season that you would want to cover in season two?
CW: Oh yeah, absolutely. There’s so much. I’d really love to talk about Rasputin. I’d love to go into Kabbalah. I’d love to do a full episode on vampires, vampires all around the world, because they exist in pretty much every culture, which is weird. There’s so much. It’s such a huge subject that I don’t think you would ever run out of stuff to talk about.
DM: What was the thing that hooked you as a kid and made you interested in all of this?
CW: The idea that the world is magic. That monsters could be real, and also, gods could be real, and good forces could be real. That there’s something behind it all that’s bigger. I think that’s a feeling that most people have intuitively. And I can’t stand secrets; I want to know!
DM: How did you get your perfect sense of humor? For example, in episode three, there are jokes about Morrissey being a demon that segue straight into Mariska Hargitay/SVU jokes. It was like you projected my brain onto the screen, and I don’t know how you did it!
CW: Growing up in Australia, Australia is such a weird mix of cultural influences. Obviously, we began being colonized by the British, and that influence was very strong up until probably the end of WWII, when we sort of shifted towards more cultural allyship with the US. We have this blend of vestigial English culture and this influence of US culture, so I grew up with English comedy and also American comedy. The American comedy was very dry and sarcastic, and I really enjoyed how acerbic it was. I found British comedy very silly, surreal, and whimsical. I guess I just ended up mashing those things together.
DM: This is not a serious question, but I have to know. When did you figure out you could do a perfect Jareth the Goblin King impression?
CW: *Laughter* Probably in my twenties, rewatching that film nostalgically as everyone in my generation did. I just loved the way that he talked. (She proceeded to do a perfect impression; I did a very bad one that she nicely said was great.)
Thank you, Cassie, for being so wonderful, easy to talk to, and genuinely funny and kind. Everybody: Go watch the show on YouTube immediately so we can guarantee there will be more seasons, because if I don’t get to hear Cassie talk about Rasputin fucking his way through Russia, I’m going to hold you all personally responsible.
